FindingPeace in a Digital World/Student Voices on Peace
Transcript
HOST: Today on Peace Talks Radio, how attention is alimited resource and what practical steps we can take to reclaim it.
(Gloria Mark clip)
The stress that we experience throughout the day care isover into our personal lives In the evening. We can't just stop work at five or6:00 PM and then go home and expect that we will be rejuvenated. No. We have tothink about rejuvenation throughout the day.
And student voices take center stage. Offering fresh takeson resolving conflict and creating belonging.
(Student voices clip)
Peace means no big arguments and everybody's happy. Justbeing calm and peaceful. I think peace means no fighting.
HOST: Coming up on Peace Talks Radio.
This is Peace Talks Radio, the radio series and podcast onpeacemaking and nonviolent conflict resolution. Whether it's the search forInner Peace, harmony in our closest relationships or understanding in ourworkplaces, schools, neighborhoods, and beyond, we explore it here on PeaceTalks Radio. From personal moments to global movements, we consider what ittakes to build a more peaceful world.
I'm Jessica Ticktin. In a world where our attention isconstantly under siege by alerts, apps, deadlines, and digital noise, what doesit mean to find peace of mind? And how does our fractured attention impact ourpersonal relationships, our productivity, and our sense of inner calm? In thefirst part of this program, we explore the connection between attention,digital life, and psychological wellbeing with Dr. Gloria Mark, a professor inthe computer science department at uc, Irvine, and author of the book AttentionSpan, A groundbreaking Way to Restore Balance, happiness, and Productivity. Andin part two of our program today, if you wanna know what the future of peacesounds like, ask a 10-year-old or a high schooler training to be a diplomat.
That's exactly what we did coming up later today. Now let'shear from Dr. Mark who has spent decades researching how technology shapes ourattention. What is the connection between our attention span and our health andhappiness?
GLORIA MARK: That is such an important question, andthank you, Jessica, for having me on.
So. There's a, a big connection because when we're, when wefeel peaceful inside, we're able to focus. And the converse is that when we'restressed, it interferes with our ability to focus. Right? And so we need tofind ways to make ourselves. Sort of calm down, slow down, be reflective, bemore deliberate in what we're thinking in the information we're processing.
Now there's a, a psychological connection, so this is moreof a scientific connection. People have a limited amount of cognitiveresources, so you can think of it like a tank. That's the metaphor that I liketo use. And. A lot of things we do during the day drains that tank. Mm. So ifyou're trying to focus for long periods of time, or if you're multitasking,which means shifting your attention rapidly, it drains your tank. And of coursewe have emotional resources too that get drained. And we use these resources toregulate our emotions, right? So when we rest our minds. It gives us a chanceto build those resources up.
And when, when we have this full tank of resources, we canthink more clearly, we can be better engaged, we can regulate our emotions, wecan regulate our attention. So there's, there's a very strong connection there.
JESSICA TICKTIN: How do you tell people how toregulate that throughout the day? Could you talk me through that?
GLORIA MARK: Sure. Sure. So first of all, um,consider that everyone has their own personal rhythm of attention. This is whatwe found in our research. So it's not like we can pay full attention throughoutthe entire day, but our attention ebbs. And, uh, flows. It waxes and wanesdepending on how, how much resources we have available.
So one of the first things everyone can do is discover whenyour peak attention times are. And that's easy to do. You can do it by, youknow, keep a, a diary for a few days and note down, uh, periodically when youfeel. Like your attention is at its peak. You can do it more formally. There,there are ways I mentioned in the book how you could do it, uh, in a moreformal way, but that's just kind of a, an overview For myself, my attentionpeaks, um, I would say midmorning, little before midday. And then, you know,I'd take a nice break for lunch and then it peaks again. In Midafternoon andarrange to do those things that are the hardest, the hardest tasks during thosetimes when your attention is at its peak, right? You don't wanna waste those timesby going on social media or do doing your email, but.
Use those times when you really need to be most productive.So that's, that's one thing that's really important. We pay attention accordingto what our goals are. So if my goal is to finish a piece of writing, that'swhat I pay attention to. If my goal is. Well, I'm curious about the news. Thenof course, you go and check the news, right?
That's where your attention is directed. But we found in ourresearch that when people state their goals the night before, and then theyreaffirm them. Reaffirm them, sorry, they reaffirm them the next morning.They're more likely to stick to their goals longer, but of course, you have tokeep being reminded of your goals because goals can slip so fast now. I alsoemphasize that there's two kinds of goals. There are task goals. Of course, wehave task goals, we have to get work done. But there are also emotional goals,and it's really important to think about what is your emotional goal for theday. So for me, my emotional goal is I, I want to feel fulfilled.
I want to feel. Positive at the end of the day, some days Iwant to feel peaceful. I want to feel, you know, relaxed and peaceful, and youknow that everything is working the way it should. So having an emotional goalis really important because your mind thinks of that, right, and it helps youadjust your behavior to reach that goal.
Another thing that people can do is to practice what'scalled forethought, which is thinking about your future self at the end of theday. So you can imagine how do you wanna be and really visualize it. Reallyhave a concrete visualization. Maybe you wanna see yourself sitting on thecouch and reading a book or.
Sitting on the couch being with your partner or your family,that would be imagining your future self. And that's a very powerful motivatorto help keep us on track when we keep thinking about where we wanna be at theend of the day, where we don't wanna be. And I've been there many times, isstill working on that deadline.
It's 10:00 PM at night, that is not where I wanna be.Mm-hmm. And so it really helps keep us on track to think of that.
JESSICA TICKTIN: So I think like what you're sayingin terms of those emotional goals and how we don't maybe pay attention to howwe're draining those resources is so important for a conflict resolution.
If what you want to provide for your family or your partneris if you. I don't realize that what you're doing throughout your day is givingall of your attention to other people, right? What's left at the end?
GLORIA MARK: Yeah. So when we're stressed, we, wetend to look inward, right? We're focusing on ourselves and we need instead tolook outward to think about other people.
Zoom is a challenge because. Zoom calls are often scheduledback to back, and there's, there's no transition time and you go from onemeeting to another. They're tiring and they're more tiring than physicalmeetings because with physical meetings, you, you have time for socialinteraction, informal interaction before the meetings begin.
They're more spontaneous there. There's more joking andlaughter. There's also, it's easier to pay attention when when you're inperson, so they're less stressful. It's, it's harder to pay attention in a Zoommeeting, and this is something that organizations have to participate in, is toallow time for good rest breaks, and they, they have to.
Put that as part of their core values. This is what I argue.Having rest breaks for people is so important so that we really can pullourselves out of this rat race that we're in throughout the day, and we can sitback and we can reflect. Yeah, and we can replenish and maybe go for a walk,maybe have a chat with somebody, maybe do some creative writing, but somethingto clear our heads and replenish us and reset us so that at the end of the day.
We have time for other people because there are carryovereffects. The stress that we experience throughout the day carries over into ourpersonal lives in the evening, and so we, we can't just stop work at, you know,five or 6:00 PM and then go home and expect that we will be rejuvenated. No, wehave to think about rejuvenation throughout the day.
You're listening to Peace Talks Radio. I'm Jessica Ticktin inconversation with Dr. Gloria Mark, author of the book, attention Span, aGroundbreaking Way to Restore Balance, happiness, and Productivity.
You mentioned in your book the idea of internal disruptionsor interruptions and external. Can you talk more about that, the differencebetween those types of breaks or interruptions?
GLORIA MARK: Yeah. So first of all, one of the mostsurprising things I've found in my research is that people are about as likelyto self-interrupt as they are to be interrupted from some external source, likea phone call, email notification, social media notification, people withinthemselves will interrupt. And there are a lot of reasons for it.
Sometimes people, they're, they interrupt because they havethis urge to look something up, this urge to read something, but it's alsohabitual. And one of the things we found in our research was that when externalinterruptions go down, people begin to self interrupt more. Hmm. It's as thoughpeople want to maintain this pattern of interruption, and this says to me thatinterruptions are habitual and they're deeply ingrained, which means our shortattention spans are also habitual and deeply ingrained.
And so it's, you know, not so easy to, if we simply cut offexternal interruptions. We're, we're gonna keep interrupting ourselves, right?So we have to find other ways to improve our attention spans than simplyturning off notifications, although that's a first step, and it's reallyimportant to do that.
JESSICA TICKTIN: Speaking of the attention span, youhad said that over the past 15 years it has declined and now we're at. About 47seconds that we spend on a screen. It's all generations. It's boomers, it'smillennials, it's Gen X, it's, you know, gen Z. What is that doing to ourability to be present?
GLORIA MARK: It is affecting our ability to bepresent because if you're changing your attention every 47 seconds. You're notable to deeply process anything, right? What, instead is happening, we're justpicking things up in short snippets, right? We're grabbing this with ourattention. Then we're switching, grabbing something else. We're we're talkingabout on average. Although the median length of time, that means the midpointof our data is, uh, 47, 40 seconds.
Which is quite, quite short. So we find that the fasterpeople switch attention, the higher is their stress. Right. There's this strongcorrelation between stress and attention shifting. We have found in otherstudies that interruptions actually cause stress right there. There's acausality there. One more thing I'll say is that when we switch our attention.
Our minds get fatigued and there's a part of our mind, it'scalled executive function, who, and the job of that component is to filter outdistractions and keep us on track when the mind gets fatigued. Executivefunction just can't do its job. Can you speak a little bit about the differentkinds of attention that we can have?
Yeah, so when I, I was researching attention, it occurred tome that attention is a lot more complicated than just this idea of you'refocused or not focused because we can pay attention to something. Imagine thatyou're reading. A difficult book or you're reading something inspiring, itrequires a little bit of cognitive effort.
To be able to make sense of it, but at times we can also payattention to things that don't require much cognitive effort at all. Playingsolitaire play, playing a mindless game on the phone, and I don't want todenigrate playing mindless games. A lot of people do. Sometimes it can helpsettle our mind, but it doesn't require.
Much attention, social media, right? Scrolling throughsocial media does not require cognitive resources, doesn't require effort. Sowe call that kind of attention. Rote attention. It's a label. So it's, youknow, like when you play solitary, solitary, it's paying attention. Withoutusing a lot of effort. When we have to put in effort, I call that focusedattention.
And so there are these two dimensions that we need to thinkabout when we're considering attention. How challenged are you and how engagedare you? When you're challenged and engaged, I call that focused attention.When you're engaged but not challenged, I call that rote attention. And ifyou're not challenged and not engaged, that's boredom.
And if you're challenged and not engaged, I give that alabel of frustration like when I have a tech problem. You know, I, I have to, Iforce myself to be engaged and I'm just really challenged with it.
JESSICA TICKTIN:You are listening to Peace TalksRadio. I'm Jessica Ticktin in conversation with Dr. Gloria Mark. When I thinkabout the conflict, sometimes I get into with my teenagers, at the end of theday, they are just on their phone scrolling and I think, isn't there somethingelse you could do that's more productive or that's helpful having read your book.
Sometimes that's just a place for you to be able to unwind,however. When does that become a problem?
GLORIA MARK: So it becomes too much. When we can'tpull away out of our own accord, then then it's problematic. Keep in mind thatit's human to be distracted, right? It's just natural for we're, if you take awalk, you're distracted by the environment around you.
So. It's fine to be distracted. It's human. The problem iswhen we can't pull ourselves out of that distraction, and so, you know,spending a three minutes on scrolling through social media in my view is okay.It's not harmful. It's when it becomes longer and people cannot pull themselvesout when they have lost the self-regulation to be able to pull themselves out.
And so it's important to think instead of just saying, youknow, get off your phone and, you know, I, I have kids too, so, you know, I, Iwent through this. Think about a replacement. What can you replace thatactivity with that can more fulfilling for them? So. For example, immersivereading is just a powerful replacement and my, my kids were raised without TVand so we got them into a habit of reading, so, and they understood theexperience of immersion.
Reading now. Yeah, so let's replace immersion in a phonewith immersion in reading because it builds up a cognitive muscle to be able tofocus better. And it also allows people to go slow and to learn to bereflective and too. Learn how to deliberate. And it also increases people'sknowledge and wisdom because they can connect it to their existing store ofknowledge when you, you know, go through social media, scrolling through thereshort snippets and you're not really building on knowledge and you're, you'renot coming away with that with any kind of deep fulfillment, whereas reading abook can or interacting with other people, having a conversation is a greatreplacement. So there's a lot of ways that we can replace social mediabehavior.
JESSICA TICKTIN: Can we go back to the multitasking?Can you talk a little bit more about why multitasking is not a great way to beproductive?
GLORIA MARK: Yeah. It hurts our performance in ourdigital age.
People tend to think of multitasking as a badge of honor tobe able to do it, but it hurts our performance in three ways. First of all.People make more errors, but actually let me back up and talk about whatmultitasking is. It's not doing two things in parallel unless one of thosethings is automatic, so you can walk and text because walking is automatic.
Until it stops being automatic because a car is is coming atyou, then, then you have to pay attention to that. Multitasking is actuallyshifting your attention rapidly among different activities, and these are twoactivities that require some amount of attention, and so people make more.People make more errors.
That's been shown in decades of laboratory research, right?Number two is that there's a cost in switching attention in terms of time. Ittakes longer to do any single. Task as if you're switching among them, asopposed to just working on one through to the end. It's called monotasking, andthen you stop when you get to a break point and then you pick up some othertask.
But when you switch. In the middle of doing a task, you loseyour place. You end up doing redundant work, and your mind also has to do extrawork because it has to retrieve what's called a schema. Of the next task, aschema is the information or the plan that we need to do the task. Even if itseems like a trivial task, we still need to retrieve that schema andcontinually retrieving that schema.
It takes time and it takes effort. And the third reason whymultitasking is bad is because it increases stress. Hmm. And there are labstudies that show blood pressure rises. There's a physiological marker thatindicates people are more stressed. In our studies, we find that people aremore stressed.
We've had them wear heart rate monitors, so we can actuallys you know, detect when people's attention is shifting and what happens withtheir stress. And of course, people subjectively report. More stress, so moreerrors, longer time, higher stress, not a good idea to multitask.
JESSICA TICKTIN: Is there anything that you see as akind of, I don't know if it's bright light, but you know, as you look ahead toour, the future in our digital lives, what do you think?What do you think aboutwhen you, when you look ahead as, as something, dare you pause it, are you sortof feeling hopeful about it or are you feeling a little more scared about it?
GLORIA MARK: So, I, I'm an optimist by nature and Iam optimistic because I think a lot of people want change. So a lot of peopleare looking for ways to change their behaviors, and to me that's very, veryoptimistic and, uh, it takes time.
We can't do it overnight. Uh, we can't do it as individuals.We, we need to have a collective effort. We need organizations to cooperate,for example. I would like to see organizations providing quiet time toemployees every day as, as part of their core values. This should be scheduledinto every, every employee's workday so that we're, you know, it's, it's achance to de-stress so that we don't carry air stress home with us. Um, and I,I think slowly, slowly, organizations are starting to realize the effects ofburnout and how burnout can really, it harms the organization's productivityand performance and when people are. Positive and have better wellbeing. Theyperform better, they can be better engaged and motivated, and the same in ourlives.
So, you know, I am hopeful that organizations will be ableto make changes that can alleviate burdens of email and workload on people,provide quiet time, and also that people in their own lives will realize thatthey can. Do things that can inspire them instead of spending time on socialmedia binge watching.
I don't wanna, you know, condemn, binge watching tv.Everybody does it. It has a purpose. Sometimes we just need to do it to unwind,but we, there are also other ways we can spend our time as well. And I thinkpeople will slowly begin to realize the benefits of doing that..
JESSICA TICKTIN: And is there any last piece ofadvice or, or anything new you're working on that you'd wanna share with ouraudience?
GLORIA MARK: Well, I would say that we need a seachange in our culture and it's something that we all have to participate in.And of course there needs to be better policy tech regulations. But I alsowanna emphasize that we know from research that even though we turn offnotifications and algorithms are not affecting us, that people still have shortattention spans and to address this cultural change, we have to do it asindividuals. We have to, for example, met practicing meta-awareness is one wayto build up our stamina and help us reflect and understand ourselves better. Weneed to do it at an organizational level to be able to give employeespermission, to be able to spend quiet time to de-stress and on a societal levelas well.
And this, there are many, many things in terms of policythat can change. I'm a big believer in banning cell phones in schools. That'sone example. I think that's very positive. I think that there will be culturalchange because we've swung the pendulum too far in one direction. You know,we've been so eager and in love with our digital world that.
Yeah, we haven't come up for air to see what theconsequences are, and we're starting to come up for air. And so now we have tothink about moving the pendulum back so that we can have more of a balancedlife. And that's the subtitle of my book is about achieving a balance.
HOST: That was Gloria Mark, professor of ComputerScience at UC Irvine, an author of Attention Span: a Groundbreaking Way to RestoreBalance, Happiness, and Productivity. Her work reminds us that the pursuit ofpeace isn't only about resolving external conflict. It also means learning howto create stillness and focus within ourselves. To learn more about Dr. Gloriaand Mark, go to Peace Talks radio.com where you'll find links to her work.That's where you can go to hear all our programs in our series dating back to2002. You can read and share transcripts and sign up for our podcast. You canalso make a donation to keep this nonprofit program going into thefuture@peacetalksradio.com. Coming up in the second part of the program, weasked students how they handle conflict, their answers, honest, wise, andsometimes hilarious.
Stay tuned to find out back in a moment.
(Music Break)
HOST: Voices we don't always hear in conversationsabout conflict resolution, young people.
(Student Voices clip)
peace means no big arguments and everybody's happy justbeing calm and peaceful. I think peace means no fighting. You can be yourselfwithout being judged and you don't have the fear of being interrupted or beingbullied.
HOST: Also, high school students who are members oftheir model UN.
(High School Students in Model UN clip)
Maybe instead of trying to be the loudest person in theroom, I'll try and just sit back, listen and then maybe see if we become acollective working to the goal rather than just trying to like further our owninitiative.
It just kind oflike Model UN really helped me be more receptive towards the other person issaying, and more malleable.
It comes to like compromises. I mean, nobody's supposedto be happy with a good compromise, right?
HOST: Comingup today on Peace Talks Radio, youth Voices on Peace.
This is Peace Talks Radio, the radio series and podcast onpeacemaking and nonviolent conflict resolution. Whether it's the search forinner peace, harmony in our closest relationships or understanding in ourworkplaces, schools, neighborhoods, and beyond, we explore it here on PeaceTalks Radio. From personal moments to global movements, we consider what ittakes to build a more peaceful world.
I am Jessica Ticktin. On this episode of Peace Talks Radio,we talk with fourth graders who are just beginning to think about what peacemeans in their lives and high school students deeply engaged in diplomacy andglobal problem solving through their model United Nations program. We also hearfrom a classroom teacher who shares how she manages conflict among students dayto day, helping them learn empathy, accountability, and repair.
What can we learn about peace at school, at home, and in theworld? When we listen to the next generation?
When we ask kids about conflict, they remind us thatemotions, misunderstandings, and trust are all part of relationships and peaceoften begins with a conversation. I visited a fourth grade classroom inBurlington, Vermont. After a spirited discussion about what peace means tothem, these young people gathered in groups of friends.
I was then able to go a little deeper into asking them aboutsome of their conflict resolution strategies. Here's what a group of four,10-year-old girls had to say. Within your friendship, do you guys have anyconflict?
4TH GRADE GIRLS: Yes. I gotta say a lot ofthe time. Yeah. Tell me. So I'm not gonna say names. Mm-hmm. But we weresupposed to write this report and it was a misunderstanding. I, I'm prettysure, but some people spread some rumors about somebody's report and it madethis somebody feel sort of bad. I talked to that person at the end of the daywho felt hurt and.
We talked it through and I said, I'm sorry. It was amisunderstanding. I apologized.
And yeah, well, I did the same thing and I also told themhow it hurt my feelings.
My strategy is taking space. If I'm either, if I'm the onewho's being hurt or if the person who is hurt, if they like clearly asked tohave space, I'm just gonna give it to them. 'cause that's what they asked andwe should respect that.
JESSICA TICKTIN: So one thing is to give space,another thing is to talk it through. Another thing was you said saying, sorry,what else?
4TH GRADE GIRLS: Maybe also talking to theteacher. Mm-hmm.
Talking to an adult to help you resolve it.
Make sure it's a trusted at all.
JESSICA TICKTIN: Why do you think there is so muchdrama? What do you think? That there's a lot of stuff going on, even if you'renot always a part of it. Why do you think there's a lot going on?
4TH GRADE GIRLS: Um, there's a lot. Ofmisunderstandings or I think we fight a lot about, not important things, but itjust makes us a little bit angry about the tiniest things and then we make itinto a fight just 'cause we felt hurt about that one little thing.
JESSICA TICKTIN: So you have, it's easy, it soundslike it's easy for your feelings to be hurt.
4TH GRADE GIRLS Yeah. Mm-hmm. And also,especially if you're like going through a hard time, like all those feelings,if like you haven't let them go yet, it like adds to the hurricane and thensometime the hurricane has to rain and it just all rains out at the one timewhen they made you feel really angry.
Mm-hmm.
JESSICA TICKTIN So it's about managing our feelingsit sounds like. Right?
4TH GRADE GIRLS You all have feelingssometimes it's about something not related at all to the thing that's going on,but Yeah. And then, but it's also like, and then you might by mistake, liketake it out on the person who hurt you, but all. So it, there was another thingthat was unrelated to them, and you by mistake took it out.
JESSICA TICKTIN: These fourth graders illustrate thateven the youngest members of our community are learning the tools of peace,listening, taking space, apologizing, and being honest about their emotions.This is Peace Talks Radio. I'm Jessica Ticktin talking to young people aboutpeace. While the girls reflected on how misunderstandings and hurt feelings canbuild up sometimes requiring space, apologies and honest conversations torepair for other students.
Peace building can sometimes be as simple and quick as agame of chance. Like rock, paper, scissors. I went to speak with a group ofnine and 10-year-old boys whose approach to conflict was a little bitdifferent. Whether it's wrestling with siblings or arguing over whose turn itis, they offer their own tools for sorting things out and then moving on.
From rock paper, scissors to the Art of Compromise, theseboys are already tapping into the fundamentals of conflict resolution,communication, fairness, and creativity.
All right, so you guys are friends, right?
4TH GRADE BOYS: Yep.
JESSICA TICKTIN So. Do you guys feel like you getalong well?
4TH GRADE BOYS Yeah, well sometimes, like,yeah, no, we, well, we play fight sometimes. Like, sometimes, sometimes.
But we, it's like for like, um, the ball.
JESSICA TICKTIN: What are the arguments like aroundfriends…the things that come up between you that make you get upset?
4TH GRADE BOYS Well, we argue about whowins games.
Yeah. Sometimes. Oh yeah.
Like who wins the game? Yeah.
And then like it doesn't last long. It doesn't last the nextday, like.
An hour later, we're all just like friends again an hourlater.
We don't care.
JESSICA TICKTIN What are the things that make youactually feel angry?
4TH GRADE BOYS There's not really anythingthat makes us that angry.
Yeah. I get like, I can get super angry if like someone,like, if like someone's like. Someone's like cheating a lot and like sayingthey're winning.
JESSICA TICKTIN So if someone were to break yourtrust, would that make you, what would that make you feel?
4TH GRADE BOYS Uh, well, like we'dprobably be friends again later. Like the day.
Yeah, I'd probably like forget about it.
Yeah, me too. Me too. I'd probably like forgive them too.
JESSICA TICKTIN How does it feel when you forgivesomebody?
4TH GRADE BOYS Uh, good because then theycan start being your friend and you don't have to be like trying, like eventhough they are your friends, you don't have to be like pretending you hatethem.
JESSICA TICKTIN It sounds like you guys have sometools that you've learned, like even in this classroom, like when things don'tmaybe go your way or you feel like you want something you're not getting, whatare the strategies you use right away to try to like make a case?
4THGRADE BOYS: Rock, paper, scissors. We do that a lot. We do it to see itgoes down the wet slide.
Oh yeah, we do that today or.
Or sometimes we're just like, we are just like both.
Like if we can both do it, we'll both do it.
Oh yeah. So then like you don't have to fight.
JESSICA TICKTIN: And what about like at home whenyou, let's say what siblings, sometimes that can be more intense. Do yourparents have some strategies they use to help you guys sort out arguments withsiblings?
4TH GRADE BOYS: My parents don’t stop us.They Don't really stop us when we're fighting, so, oh yeah.
They can get in, they can turn into really big fights fromjust like over a little thing.
Like if you stepped on somebody else's cardboard sail boat.
Yeah, yeah.
Or something like that. Yeah.
Usually like I don't fight, but then my brother fights andthen I have no choice but to fight.
Well, sometimes when I'm home. And I'm bored. I just try toannoy my sister.
Same.
Same.
Yeah.
She kind of just runs away. So we never really get infights.
Well, sometimes, sometimes, like me and my brother fight forfun. Like we are angry at each other, but we just start like fighting on thecouch. And our brothers do like daily wrestles for the wrestle.
Yeah.
JESSICA TICKTIN: So what advice would you have forpeople who are in an argument and need to sort it out? What, what kind of toolswould you use?
4THGRADE BOYS: uh, well figure out what you both want and then. You can see ifyou can get something that's like in the middle of what you both want. Try tomake a compromise. Yeah.
JESSICA TICKTIN What do you guys suggest?
4TH GRADE BOYS Um, rock, paper, scissors,or try to make a compromise or something like that. Yeah.
JESSICA TICKTIN All right. Now I'm gonna take aglobal, what do you think, um, could help us have more peace in the world, um,like leaders or politicians or people in positions of power, what could they doto help make more peace?
4TH GRADE BOYS Well, they could make, theycould make it fair for like everyone and everyone gets the same.
Not, some people get more and some people get less.
Well, they could make it so that like, if you feel likeyou're getting mad, you should probably just like take a deep breath orsomething. Yeah.
JESSICA TICKTIN: Even when the wrestling gets rowdy,there's a foundation of connection between these boys and a growing awarenessthat peace isn't just about avoiding conflict, but about finding ways throughit Together, this is Peace Talks Radio.
I'm Jessica Ticktin. Today's episode features Youth Voiceson Peace. Creating a classroom isn't always easy.
In a time when many young people feel disconnected. Oneelementary school teacher is building something different, a classroom rootedin respect, belonging, and shared ownership. DanI Banky doesn't just teachacademics.
She helps kids learn how to listen, support each other, andgrow into thoughtful citizens. In my conversation with her, we hear how shecultivates peace, one circle, one conversation and relationship at a time.
DANI BANKY: That sense of belonging and sense ofcommunity aspect is at the heart of my teaching philosophy.
I got very lucky with this group. They are an exceptionalgroup of kiddos, but as far as really blending and coming together as acommunity, it definitely didn't just happen. We do circle every morning. I justthink it's a really beautiful way to start the day together, and sometimeswe'll end the day with a quick closing circle as well. Being something assimple as what made you smile today? Or What were you grateful for today? Andthe most special part of that is that there's a little bit of energy andchatter or excitement sometimes, but for the most part, they're able to fullylisten to each other, making eye contact and listening to their peers about howtheir weekend went or something that’s exciting that it's going on in theirlife. They genuinely respect each other in a way that I've never seen before.
JESSICA TICKTIN: How do you like foster that kind ofrespect in the class, aside from like circle time, how do you as the teacherhelp them give them tools?
DANI BANKY: I never want to be seen as like theperson who has the power in the class, and I think that's also a littleprogressive, but I never wanna be punitive.
I never want it to be like. This is my classroom. I openedthe year saying, this is our classroom, and we even made a contract together. Ididn't give them expectations. We created them together. So that creation of acommunity as students and an adult brought us almost on an equal. Playing fieldwhere they know I respect them and then in return they respect me.
But it's like all based on just having authentic love forthem. Like they know that at the end of the day, I am here for them, whateverthey need. Like they can trust me. I'm not here to tell them how to live theirlives. I want them to explore the classroom themselves and explore theirlearning independently.
JESSICA TICKTIN: DanI says she's always learning fromher students as well.
DANI BANKY: Really young people. They're not evenpreteens yet. Um, they know a lot more about the world than adults expect themto or think they do. Um, and that's. A huge part of my practice as well is, uh,engaging in criticality. We do that with a lot of anti-racist work together,and that has been, especially in our political climate this year, has been sohealing for me, honestly, because in a time when we might be losing hope in thefuture of our country, I'm able to look at the future every day and be like.
Oh, you, you are all amazing humans and I actually feel likeit's going to be okay. And that really just comes from them showing up everyday and being excited to be here and to engage in whatever the work is for thatday.
JESSICA TICKTIN When do you feel like they, yourclass is most cohesive when they're all really kind of in this zone?
DANI BANKY Yeah, there's two different spaces where Isee that, um, there's like the playful space, something as simple as, you know,sharks and minnows outside.
JESSICA TICKTIN: If you aren't familiar with thisgame, like I wasn't, I asked one fourth grader, Mabel to explain it to me.
MABEL: Sharks in minnows is a game where there aretwo people who are the sharks and a lot of other people who try to run fromside to side without getting tagged.
And if you get tagged by one of the sharks, you becomeseaweed and you have to try to tag other people. But while standing in the samespot.
JESSICA TICKTIN And your teacher says that this is agame where she finds your whole class is really into it and, and she calls itcohesive. Do you know what that means?
MABEL: No.
JESSICA TICKTIN: It means that you all come together.
MABEL: Well, a lot of people just like running andlike doing that activity and then doing it together just like brings ustogether more.
JESSICA TICKTIN: This is Peace Talks Radio. I'm JessicaTicktin. Today we're talking to youth about Peace. We are also speaking withDani Banky, a fourth grade teacher, about how she cultivates peace and a senseof belonging in her classroom.
DANI BANKY: And then there's that academic spacewhere if we're in like a pretty intense class discussion, we do a lot of likeSocratic seminar class discussions that are related to the real world. Thoseare really when I see their true selves come out. It can be someone being likereally opinionated or it can be someone questioning another person.
But it's like those real life skills where I'm seeing themcome together as a class, as a community and bounce off of each other'sthoughts and ideas. And that's what I really love most honestly, is likegetting to witness that collective thinking happening.
JESSICA TICKTIN: Something that struck me when I wastalking to these kids is how much love they have for each other. They reallyseem to care about each other. I was really struck with their willingness toquickly forgive. Mm-hmm. And to move on after conflicts because they just wannabe together.
DANI BANKY: I feel like with this group inparticular, if there is any emotional harm done by anyone in the class, toanyone in the class, it is addressed as a class. I do not, um, for the mostpart, unless it's like private, I do not address it with just the kid who didthe harm or the kid who the harm was done to. We address it all together. Thisjust happened a few weeks ago and it was some kiddo felt, had verbalized to melike, everyone hates me and that, you know, that's like full stop.
We had a circle and I let that other kid take a break andcalm down 'cause they were very heightened. I had talked to the class before,he had come back in and said, this is not acceptable. A member of our communitydoes not feel loved or welcomed here. That is not how we do things. And you allknow that.
And he's really upset. And so I'm really upset. It doesn'tjust affect him, it affects me and it affects our community and we need to allfeel safe here. They, and when the kiddo came back in. They were superapologetic. They welcomed him with open arms. They reassured him that he isloved and he is welcomed and it was resolved.
JESSICA TICKTIN: Right. But did they follow that up?But did you see following that up with action in the coming days
DANI BANKY: oh yeah. A hundred percent. And then wealso, after we had kind of, you know, yeah, resolved and had a closingconversation with him there, we went out and played a game altogether and likeit was. Like everything was fine, right?
And they were being extra, I think, uh, mindful of, um,engaging with him and making sure he felt. Extra part of the game. Right. Andthat's really what I love about this age group that you wouldn't really seewith middle or or high school where they just wanna resolve things so that theycan be together.
And that's really where the peace comes in. It's like theyvalue the idea of peace in a way that adults maybe don't as much so as weshould, which is what we are here for. Um, and I think a huge, something reallyimportant to me is like modeling peaceful and healthy relationships with adults.My special educator, Allie, she's amazing and her and I have such a beautifulrelationship and the kids notice that and they see that I love doing closingcircle 'cause it just ends the day on a really good note as well.
Even if it's like a five minute check-in where we can justbe like, I, what was something that you were grateful for today? Practicingthat gratitude because that brings me peace. Like I do that with my partnerevery night before bed. We're like, what were you grateful for today? Becauseit really resets, um, kind of just like where you are and, um, where you'regoing for the next day.
Right? It kind of just resets you. Um, and they, I lovedoing that with them because sometimes the answers are outrageous, butsometimes they're really wholesome and really sweet and just as simple like.You like, thank you. And it's, you know, sometimes this job can be a little thankless,so something as simple as that, it really fills your cup up.
It means a lot.
HOST: That was Dani Banky, a fourth grade teacher inBurlington, Vermont. Today we're talking with youth about their thoughts onpeace. Now we hear from high school students who are learning to navigateconflict, not just in international diplomacy simulations, but in theireveryday lives through their involvement in the model United Nations.
These young peace builders are gaining skills in listening,compromise and emotional regulation. I was lucky enough to be welcomed intothis classroom after school one day when there were a handful of studentshanging around chatting with each other.
High School Students: think that people often havesort of a tendency when in conflict situations to listen to other people, butonly be engaging in the conversation to speak.
You know, they're engaging and just waiting to say what theyhave to say. And I feel like model un. It taught me to sort of listen to whatother, it sounds sort of shallow, but like, you know, listen to what otherpeople are saying and listen because they want to be understood too. So I feellike Model UN taught me in a broader sense how to listen to other people'sperspectives in a healthier way.
And I think two like main things, similar to what Rose said,where you have to like. One of them is it teaches you how to respond in, likeargue in like a respectful way and still be conscious of their opinions and seethe argument from multiple perspectives and then work to solve it and not justwork to like win the argument.
I think a lot of people end up, uh, very rigid in how theysee the solution or just how they see the structure of debate. Happening withinma n and I mean, it's, it kind of happens to be the people who are the loudestwho try to lead the most end up having a very narrow perspective on how theresolution paper is supposed to look, which is just the final paper that wasthe result of the, of Ma n.
What I've learned is that we need to be a lot more. Relaxed,like the world's not gonna end. Everybody here is speaking very informally, andsure there are formalities most of the time. What I've learned is just to kindof relax a bit and be a bit more squishy in terms of my arguments
So I imagine one of the most important skills that I'velearned and probably that I didn't start with when I first began Model UN wasmediation and knowing how to sit in a room. 'cause with people who are veryopinionated, very smart, you know, who wanna get their like opinions out, whowanna speak.
There's also awards that you get during conference, sopeople want to get those as well. And I mean, it's just a lot of commotionoftentimes a lot of shouting sometimes as well. And what I've learned is howto, as someone who also likes to shout and voice their opinion, I've learnedhow to sit back and be like, you know what, maybe instead of trying to be theloudest person in the room, I'll try and just sit back, listen and then maybesee if we can work together and become a collective working to the goal ratherthan just trying to like further our own initiative. I think that's reallyimportant.
JESSICA TICKTIN: Iwas impressed with their insights and their willingness to hear new anddifferent perspectives. It was refreshing to hear how they led with kindnessand respect. I asked them if you could give advice to our world leaders, whatwould you say?
HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS: While I have some of the, Ifeel like we need to get out of our echo chambers. I learned about this a lot.Especially because I did this NSLC program and (National Student LeadershipCouncil) I did an internationalrelations program for about nine days. Um, and I met kids from all over thecountry and even all over the world. Like I have friends now who live inBrazil, which is really cool.
But I learned to be more open-minded because they had someof the same like core values as me, and just the morals were the same. Theymight've. Felt differently about politics, and so it really made me open mymind and just listen to what they were saying. And I feel like it was reallyimportant because now I'm much more open-minded when I talk to new people.
I feel like, especially in Vermont, we live in such a bubblebecause everyone, almost everyone has the same political beliefs and I lovethat. I grew up here and I. I think it's important to get out there and hearother people's opinions and it makes you think of things you maybe wouldn'thave thought of before.
I would just say to chill out a little bit, honestly, I meanless in a physical way or an emotional way, but just people are very rigid intheir, in their, what they believe. And it's fine to believe in something, butI mean, just 'cause you believe in something doesn't mean that the other guyhas to. Even if that other guy might be wrong, in your opinion, they can bewrong and you can just agree to disagree.
But I mean, people are looking, are just looking for reasonsto get mad at other people because they fundamentally have differences. Maybethis isn't as serious as it needs to be, and maybe this isn't as pressing as itneeds to be, and maybe you can live without them agreeing with you.
I think that this is gonna sound really cringey, but I justthink that we all need to be kinder to each other.
I think a lot of like the root of these issues that theworld is facing also our country, is that we're so polarized and opinions andin beliefs, but are we actually, if that makes sense. I think to at least someextent. We're all just like going about our lives. I mean, we all have problemsthat like aren't as big as like world hunger, you know, but are just veryimportant to us no matter what.
And I think that just like we need to understand that we'reall just people. And even though that one person has a slightly differentbelief than me, that doesn't make them a bad person. I mean, maybe that justmeans I need to. Kind of change my perspective and understand where they'recoming from.
And I think a lot of people have been talking about likeopen-mindedness.I think that's exactly what we need to do. And just not only belike open to other people's ideas, but also respectful of them. And maybe like,okay, if I wanna live in a world where what I believe in exists, maybe thatmeans I need to like, you know. Also have that world be one that you enjoy aswell, and you also wanna live there and you have your beliefs as well.
And I think it's just about like being more respectful andkind to each other.
I think there are very few cases where, um, disagreement,warrants, disrespect, and I just think that if you are having a conversationwith someone, you're having the conversation with them to understand each otherand hopefully reach some sort of common goal.
And if you're doing that without any sort of respect forthem as a person or their beliefs, even if you disagree, then it's not gonna bea productive conversation.
JESSICA TICKTIN: So then we ended with a livelydiscussion with the question, when do you feel most at peace?
HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS: A lot of summers we get to goto Maine and. Swim in the ocean, but it's just, it's really peaceful.. you justfloat on your back in the ocean and like in a little cove and there aren't anywaves bothering you and you're just kind of swaying back and forth.
I think I'm most at peace whenever I'm in nature swimming. Idon't know, just going for a run nightmare outside. The weather's nice. I'mskiing whenever I'm like outside, not like using my brain, if that makes sense.
I feel most at peace when I don't have any emotional burdensor responsibilities at that time.
To connect back to what we were talking about before,conflict resolution, I think if more people understood how to effectivelyresolve conflict and carry their own emotional burdens and not make otherpeople do it for them, it would take the pressure off of individuals - Morepeace.
JESSICA TICKTIN: So if we can start with peace where,when we feel at peace, right? I mean, it's sort of going back to what you weresaying, when you be more relaxed, you can engage with others, you can listen,you can be a little bit more open and porous instead of rigid. Right? Yeah.
For me, it's like getting everything done is when I can beat peace, like when there's nothing that needs to be done.
I'd say I'm most at peace when I'm building community orconnections. Whether it's somebody I've never met before and I'm learning aboutwhat they've been through, or I'm out on the hike and I'm outside connectingwith nature. I think there's just something, I just love it. I think it's sopeaceful.
HOST: That was a group of high school students inBurlington, Vermont. Through their involvement in the Model UN, these teens arelearning how to hear beneath the shouting and how to help others feel seen andrespected. Earlier in this segment, we heard from students in a fourth gradeclassroom as well as their teacher, Dani Banky, and on the first part of theprogram we talked about finding peace in a digital world.
With Dr. Gloria Mark, author of Attention Span: A GroundbreakingWay to Restore Balance, Happiness, and Productivity. Hear the full conversationor read the transcript at peacetalksradio.com. There's also a donate button foryou to contribute to this nonprofit work. Support comes from listeners like yousupport too from KUNM at the University of New Mexico, Nola Daves Moses is ourexecutive director, Allie Adelman, composed and performs our theme music forco-founders, Paul Ingles and Suzanne Kryder. I'm Jessica Ticktin. Thanks somuch for listening to and for supporting Peace Talks Radio.
