WalkForPeace Transcript
HOST: [00:00:00] In the fall of 2025, a group of Buddhist monks set out on a 2,300-mile walk for peace across the United States. Today, on Peace Talks Radio, that remarkable journey becomes the starting point for a deeper conversation. How do we cultivate peace in our own lives?
Bystander: I'm gonna be taking away, I have to do something.
Bystander: Peace just doesn't happen. Peace is an active work, and I'm, I've been asking myself the question, what am I going to do to work for peace?
HOST: And what role might inner peace play in creating a more peaceful world?
Rabbi Sheila Weinberg: If you actually spend time with something, and notice even the breath coming and going, you realize that everything actually passes.And instead of being reactive, you can be responsive, thoughtful, intelligent about it.
HOST: That's today on Peace Talks Radio.[00:01:00]
HOST: This is Peace Talks Radio, the radio series and podcast on peacemaking and nonviolent conflict resolution. I'm Jessica Ticktin today with Jeannine Etter. When we talk about peace, we often focus on wars, politics, and conflicts between groups. But many faith traditions teach that peace begins much closer to home, within ourselves.
HOST: In the fall of 2025, a group of Buddhist monks set out on a 2,300-mile walk for peace from Dallas, Texas, to Washington, DC. Traveling largely on foot over 108 days, they crossed cities and small towns, meeting people from many different backgrounds while carrying a simple message, that peace in the world begins with compassion, mindfulness, and the cultivation of inner peace.
HOST: Inspired by the journey, correspondent Jeannine Etter spoke with Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, and Christian leaders about the spiritual practices that help people navigate conflict, suffering, and uncertainty. In part two of the program [00:02:00] coming up later, Jeannine Etter speaks with Geshe Lobsang Tenzin Negi about how compassion can be cultivated, practiced, and put into action in everyday life
Jeannine Etter: Turn on the news any day at any time of day, and war is the main story.
As conflict seems to be rising to a fever crescendo, the light of hope for peace began to dim. And then one day, on October 26th, 2025 A group of Buddhist monks set out on a 2,300-mile pilgrimage across the United States to promote peace, mindfulness, compassion, and nonviolence. The Walk for Peace, initiated by the Huong Dao Vipassana Bhavana Center in Fort Worth, Texas, was a journey that lasted 108 days, concluding in Washington, DC, and Annapolis, Maryland, in mid-February 2026.
The ripples from their arduous, courageous walk still inspire and resonate well beyond the confines of the symbolic Lincoln [00:03:00] Memorial. Wendy Warden, a sideline participant, was so moved by the Walk for Peace.
Speaker 5: But I feel like one thing that, that Buddhists' dedication gives us is that when we practice and when we believe and when we're consistent, we impact things, and today's world sort of shows us that when we rant and rave in the negative, we impact things negatively.
Speaker 5: And this is just a phenomenal display of stay steadfast in your beliefs. Even when it's not easy, when it's not pretty, when it's cold, when it's raining, when it's freezing, when traffic is aggressive, uh, just keep going, one foot in front of the other.
Jeannine Etter: But before others can follow in their footsteps, the questions we face are simple yet profound.
What is peace, and how can we make peace a lived reality? To explore that question, I spoke with leaders across multiple faith traditions, including Islam, Judaism, Christianity, and Buddhism, [00:04:00] about how peace moves beyond idea into daily practice, including one Buddhist monk who participated in the walk and was seriously injured.
Starting at the beginning, the first step, the definition of peace. In Islam, the definition of peace is not separate from the greeting itself. Sheik Khalifa Mustafa Amadu Baaba explains.
Shaykh Mustafa Ahmadu Baaba: Our greetings that we greet everyone with, as-salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. And that greeting means, "May the peace, blessings, and mercy of God be upon you."
So that's our greeting, standardly, for everyone, and also the concept of Muslim in this root word, that which is Arabic, uh, salaamah, which means to be at peace. So the very name, the very greeting, uh, everything is kind of connected to peace.
Jeannine Etter: And in another faith tradition, peace is understood beyond its greeting as wholeness.
In the Jewish tradition, [00:05:00] peace is not only the greeting, it is internal and relational. Rabbi Sheila Weinberg elaborates.
Rabbi Sheila Weinberg: In Hebrew, the word shalom, and it is, means wholeness. So I think there's a sense that peace is wholeness, being whole with oneself, with one's mind, body, heart. And being whole with the other mind, body, and heart.
So I, I like that. Shalom, wholeness. I think that makes a lot of sense.
Jeannine Etter: But peace is not only spoken or understood as a word or a phrase. It is also something some Christians might describe as a way of being in the world, but not of it. Something that passes human understanding. Alignment with one's purpose is not often a concept that comes to mind when we think about the word peace in a material world largely focused on exterior gains.
Pastor R.C. Blakes is a Baptist minister from New Orleans.
Pastor RC Blakes Jr: I think that [00:06:00] mankind in general is searching outside of themselves for happiness, and they attain all of these things, accumulate all of these things, and they're still back at square one. In my opinion, it is when one comes to a place where he or she is in alignment with the Creator, authentically standing in him or herself, and is able to accept the world around them for whoever, whatever they are That's what it is for me
Jeannine Etter: Across different traditions, peace is not described as one fixed idea.
It moves between language, practice, and wholeness of being. So if peace can be defined in different ways, the next logical question might be, how do we put it into practice? They say the [00:07:00] journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and before the first step touched the concrete on the journey of 2,300 miles from Fort Worth, Texas to Washington, D.C.,
the venerable monks were practicing their faith before their outward symbol of peace reverberated across the world. Their practices included prayer, meditation, and mindfulness, to name a few. Monk Mahadham Pommasan from Atlanta, Georgia participated in the Walk for Peace and firmly believes that the practice of mindfulness is the best way to achieve peace within.
Mindfulness in Buddhist practice is the act of staying present, paying attention to thoughts, breath, surroundings, and experience without judgment.
Venerable Bante Maha Dam Phommasan: Just practice. More practice is the more you get the peace. Like I, I say be, be mindful every moment, every time. With mindful, the big problem can be small problem, but without mindful is a [00:08:00] small problem become a big problem.
Just be mindful is the best way to, to get peace to ev- everyone
Jeannine Etter: And the long Walk for Peace that stretched across 10 states, according to Maha Dhamm Paramason, that was an act of mindfulness as well.
Venerable Bante Maha Dam Phommasan: We not only, only walk like, uh, uh, normal people walk, but we focus on, on our walk. We, we call walking meditation.
We, every step we walk with, uh, with, uh, mindful, you know? When, when we hurt, we just mindful, focus on, on our hurt. Yeah. Every step, every step. That's, that's why it's, uh, like a practice our, ourself.
Jeannine Etter: Although the practices to achieve inner peace may sound simple, they are not always easy. Rabbi Weinberg explains.
Rabbi Sheila Weinberg: It's not easy, and it depends, of course, on our, uh, our background and [00:09:00] our circumstances and what we've experienced and the amount of trauma we've had in our lives. But I do believe, uh, that prayer and meditation are key factors. Meditation being sitting with what arises and noticing that whatever arises passes.
See, we expect, we get so reactive because we don't think anything's ever gonna end. Whatever we're feeling or thinking, that's it, you know? And we, we clutch onto it and think that's gonna be it. But if you actually spend time with something and notice even the breath coming and going, you realize that everything actually passes.
And instead of being reactive, you can be responsive, thoughtful, intelligent about it.
Jeannine Etter: That inner struggle that the rabbi mentioned appears to be part of the human struggle, the struggle within, demonstrated by one famous Cherokee story of two wolves. An old [00:10:00] Cherokee chief tells his grandson, "A fight is going on inside me, a terrible fight between two wolves.
One is evil, full of anger, sorrow, regret, greed, self-pity, and false pride. The other is good, full of joy, peace, love, humility, kindness, and faith." The grandson asks, "Grandfather, which wolf will win?" The chief smiles and replies, "The one you feed." That feeding of the good wolf in this story can be done through prayer, meditation, gratefulness, mindfulness, forgiveness, and daily practice, practice, practice, until one day the good wolf wins.
This inner struggle of the two wolves is universal.
Sheikh Mustafa Ahmadu Baaba.
Shaykh Mustafa Ahmadu Baaba: For the individual Muslim, it means literally to kind of arrive at peace through struggle, and the struggle is with the, the greatest [00:11:00] enemy, which is yourself, your own kind of ego, your own kind of inclinations, fears, anxieties, you know.
But it means also to be content. There's a, there's a sense of being content with the, the decree of the creator. They say, for example, that contentment is, it is the wealth, you know. You can have wealth and not be content, but to be content, you already at kind of a state of peace. Contentment is a form of gratitude.
There's also reflection. So there's dhikr, ritual rememberings. There's salah, which we do our prayer five times a day. There is shukr, being gratitude. There is contentment, being, being content. Then there is fikr. Fikr is reflecting, reflecting over when we all look back, we see the divine hand that's helped us through our adversities, all of our problems.
There's always been a hand, right? None of us are able to get where... You know, if you live long enough, no one is able to have said, "Well, I did this myself."
Jeannine Etter: Mindfulness, prayer, [00:12:00] meditation, and gratitude all have their place for cultivating peace within. Another tool in the peace toolbox is the often misunderstood practice of forgiveness.
Pastor R.C. Blakes.
Pastor RC Blakes Jr: The major ways that I, I maintain, I achieve inner peace is through forgiveness. The world around us, politics, religion, academia, it's offensive in many ways, many times. Families, friends. Forgiveness has been massive for me. Another, another way that I have come to manifest the peace that God always wanted me to walk in is not only through the power of forgiveness, not being offended and, but also simplicity Just really simplifying one's life.
I think [00:13:00] we, we, we complicate things, especially here in the United States of America. The, the American dream turns out to be the, the American nightmare when we are striving for more and more and more and more, and the more we get, the, the more unhappier we are. I think simplifying one's life, forgiving, gratitude, simply stopping and, and being grateful for what one has
Jeannine Etter: Forgiveness is often misunderstood as excusing harm, but several faith leaders describe it differently, not as approval, reconciliation, or forgetting, but as releasing the burden of carrying the injury internally.
The inner world of arriving at peace seems to be a lifelong journey of one step at a time, one prayer at a time, one meditation at a time. And how does it look in the real world when taking the show on the road? There are concepts of [00:14:00] peace and then real-life circumstances that test that stance. Monk Dom Phramahasan was critically injured in a highway crash in East Texas on November 19th, 2025, while participating in the Walk for Peace.
As the monks were walking along U.S. Highway 90 near Dayton, Texas, with a pilot vehicle escorting them, a white pickup truck struck the escort car, which then hit two monks, including Phramahasan. As a result of the accident, Bhante Dom Phramahasan had to receive leg amputation surgery and has since recovered from the accident.
Despite the circumstance and his life-altering injuries, he holds no anger towards the driver and no sadness about what happened to him.
Venerable Bante Maha Dam Phommasan: First, in, in my mind, I don't know him, you know. I, I never meet him before, and I think it's, uh, it's just a accident. I think it's, he don't want [00:15:00] to be, uh, the accident happen, too.
That's I didn't get angry to, to him. But for sadness, uh, I just understand and ac- accept, right, the na- nature of life. Do you know, uh, in Buddhism, we, the Buddha teaching is that life is suffering. This mean when you, uh, want something, you didn't get something you want, it's your suffer. But you don't want something, but you get one, it's your suffer, too.
This is the life is suffering. That's why you have to understand and accept everything happen to you, good thing or bad thing.
Jeannine Etter: The bravery and inner posture of Bhante Dom Phramahasan has gained respect and admiration. The sacrifice the monks were willing to make to demonstrate what they believed in came with a price, and many have asked [00:16:00] themselves, is that a price they are willing to pay for peace?
Frank Macy was an in-person witness to the Walk for Peace.
Bystander: I'm going to be taking away I have to do something. Peace just doesn't happen. Peace is an active work, and I'm, I've been asking myself the question, what am I going to do to work for peace, here in the U.S. as well as internationally?
Jeannine Etter: You're listening to Peace Talks Radio.
I'm Jeannine Etter. In this special feature inspired by the Buddhist Walk for Peace across the United States, I'm speaking with faith leaders from multiple traditions about what peace means and how it can be practiced in everyday life
Domestically and internationally, the desire for peace has many feeling helpless to do anything about it.
Well, one group of former soldiers and fighters have formed an alliance in the midst of war. Rabbi Sheila Weinberg.
Rabbi Sheila Weinberg: I, I just, I tell you about [00:17:00] a group that I've been involved with 'cause it's, it's meaningful to me, and I think to this topic. I met them some years ago. They're called Combatants for Peace.
Combatants for Peace, and they are former Israeli soldiers and former Palestinian fighters, many of whom were imprisoned for acts of violence. And these two people have decided that violence is not the answer, that responding, reacting with violence to violence creates more violence. I mean, are we not seeing that in this world?
Are we not seeing that again and again, played out again and again? So they started by just talking to each other, just being willing to listen to each other's stories. I think that's a big piece of it. How do we sit with the other and just open and listen to them, and realize how similar we are in a certain sense?
You know, we all have parents and families, and we all have fears. [00:18:00] And meanwhile, they started listening and they created an organization, and the organization, uh, aims to end the occupation and also to establish a just society and equality and justice for Israelis, Palestinians in some form or fashion.
They don't have a blueprint, but they have a, a goal and a hope, and they, um, they try to train young people in activism and non-violence, and they uphold that value that all people deserve to have the right to live as they need to live on this earth.
Jeannine Etter: This goal of hope among civilians remains strong, and among governments and the powers that be, there are a different set of goals in which peace is not a goal or a requirement.
Sheikh Mustafa Ahmadu Baaba.
Shaykh Mustafa Ahmadu Baaba: There's two types of violence. There is structural, and then there is social, [00:19:00] meaning there is a horizontal violence where people are hurting each other, right? Whether it's domestic abuse, child abuse, whatever, gang violence, right? But then there's structural violence, where the s- the system is deliberately starving people on purpose.
So what's going on now, right, if you have people who are not getting social justice, there's not gonna be a peace. If you got people scrambling, playing musical chairs, right, for resources, you're gonna have, you know, all kind of fights and eruption. So when we say social justice, we're simply talking about people getting their basic n- needs and basic rights met, upheld, and respected.
Jeannine Etter: Pastor R.C. Blakes has a similar take.
Pastor RC Blakes Jr: We want peace, but then there are powers that are above us, around us that really take the reins of reality out of our hands. I mean, like what we're looking at in the world today, and I won't be [00:20:00] specific, but everybody knows what we're looking at in the world today is not the consequence of the majority of the world's peoples.
It is, it is the consequence of a few power mongers that make decisions that impact the majority.
Jeannine Etter: Those powers that be that impact the majority, many have concluded, do not have the final say. The power of unity is also at play and can have a huge impact on how humans collectively experience the challenges they face.
Sheikh Mustafa Ahmadu Baaba.
Shaykh Mustafa Ahmadu Baaba: If you love peace, if you hate violence, you love justice, whatever it is that you love, that you're passionate about, then you have to find a way to do that work and find other people that's working in that line with you. And be broad-minded to understand that you're not going to agree with even the people who you're working with completely on everything.
But there should be a big enough agenda to understand that this is so [00:21:00] important. First of all, we're dealing with a multi-headed problem. It's not just one problem. It's a multi-headed problem. And so, you know, again, we just have to kind of keep hope and find like-minded people to work with, to struggle with, to put your shoulder with, you know, and kind of try to build with them.
Jeannine Etter: There's also the one-on-one connection of human kindness. Pastor R.C. Blakes.
Pastor RC Blakes Jr: I make America better when I do the personal work within myself to forgive, to love, to challenge prejudice, racism. You cannot control anything But you. It starts within you. And I think once we, we do the inner work, love your neighbor as you love yourself.
We, we love God with all the heart. That's, that's how the scripture says it. Love God, first commandment. Love God with all your heart, [00:22:00] then love your neighbor as you love yourself. Your, your love for God is going to teach you to have an appreciation and the love for yourself. That's identity, that's, you know, self-appreciation, that's self-esteem.
And then out of that, you're then empowered to love others out of the overflow of your love for God and the love God gives you for yourself. I think a lot of the issues we see today is, uh, low self-esteem, self-hatred run amok. Because people are not aligned with God, they don't really genuinely love themselves.
And when people don't love themselves, they take it out on the world around them. So I think we, we start within ourselves. When I'm in the street and I see someone in, you know, dire straits or in some kind of circumstance that is, they're struggling with, whatever power I [00:23:00] have to, to make them know that they're seen, that they are loved, you know, that they are heard, I do that.
And I think all of us, I think if all of us o- on a one-on-one, human-to-human basis would take that mindset, as opposed to how do we get the governments to change, how do we get religious leaders to change? Those, you know, you, you, you... How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. And you bite off enough that you can chew.
And I, I think this is, this is our only approach.
Jeannine Etter: Within all of this connection, differences are bound to arise. And in order to be successful, the concepts of tolerance and equality and the minimizing of ego for the greater good must be centrally believed and practiced.
Rabbi Sheila Weinberg: Rabbi Sheila Weinberg. We say that we are each created in the divine image.
Each person is created in the divine image. Not just every Jew, [00:24:00] not every man. It's, you know, not every white person. It's every person is created in the divine image. So if I actually connect to that truth in myself and also see it in you, you are also. We have so many texts that say, God loves the stranger.
You shall be kind to the stranger. Be, be, uh, open-hearted to the stranger. You know, give the stranger of your fields, uh, entertain them. There's so many lines like that in, in the Hebrew scri- the scriptures. Why? Because the stranger, the immigrant, the other, the different person, uh, the newcomer, they have the same soul as you do.
Their soul, their being, is as holy and as divine as yours. So you have to first acknowledge your own divine soul, and then realize that it belongs to every- But that's hard, and that's not the way our culture necessarily operates. We operate according to, you know, a lot of hierarchies, [00:25:00] better, better, better, you know, this one's better than this one, better than this one.
But that's not the religious, that's not the spiritual approach, at least in my view.
Jeannine Etter: And this sentiment is spelled out explicitly in most religious texts, including the Quran. Sheikh Mustafa Ahmadu Baaba.
Shaykh Mustafa Ahmadu Baaba: There's a verse in the Quran where Allah says, "We made you into nations and tribes not to despise each other, but that you may know each other or learn from each other, and the best of you are those who are the most righteous."
Meaning that the beauty of our differences, like He didn't make us clones, right? We all different.
Jeannine Etter: The Monks Walk for Peace left a ripple in the world and forged a new pathway for how we can collectively envision and walk towards peace one step at a time. And here's the lead monk in the Walk for Peace, Venerable Punyakara Thera.
Bhikku Pannakara: May every nation live in safety, stability, and [00:26:00] dignity, free from fear, chaos, and unnecessary suffering
May every person be heard, respected, and protected regardless of their race, their background, their faith, and the language that they speak May fear be replaced with understanding, and may misunderstanding never again become a reason for violence May hatred be transformed into compassion. So pains, so pain is met with care instead of blame.
May [00:27:00] peace exist not only in words and speeches, but in laws, policies, communities, and daily life May true strength be measured not by control, force, or weapons, but by how we protect one another, especially our children and the vulner-vulnerable. May progress always walk together with morality, and may growth never be built on human suffering May dialogue be chosen over confrontation and listening over judgment in [00:28:00] families, societies, and nations
May people find peace within their own hearts so that the world no longer needs violence to survive
HOST: That was Venerable Bhikkhu Punnakara, leader of the Walk for Peace, speaking in Washington, D.C. at the conclusion of the monks' 2,300-mile journey across the United States. Earlier in the program, correspondent Jeannine Etter spoke with Sheikh Mustafa Amadou Baba, Rabbi Sheila Weinberg, Pastor R.C. Blakes, Jr., and Venerable Bhante Maha Dam Phommasan.
HOST: Stay tuned for part two of this Peace Talks Radio program, where correspondent Jeannine Etter speaks with Geshe Lobsang Tenzin Negi, author of Engaged Compassion. Stay with us.[00:29:00] [00:30:00]
HOST: This is Peace Talks Radio, the radio series and podcast on peacemaking and non-violent conflict resolution. I'm Jessica Ticktin today with Jeannine Etter. On part one of this Peace Talks Radio program, correspondent Jeannine Etter spoke with Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, and Christian faith leaders about the spiritual practices that help cultivate inner peace, from mindfulness and prayer to forgiveness and compassion.
In part two of our series, inspired by the 2,300-mile walk for peace across the United States, Janine takes a deeper look at one of those practices, compassion. She speaks with Geshe Lobsang Tenzin Negi, a professor at Emory University and author of Engaged Compassion. Together, they explore how compassion can be cultivated, not only to enrich our own lives, but as a pathway towards a more peaceful world.
Here's their interview.
Jeannine Etter: So would you say compassion [00:31:00] is something that is natural or something that needs to be developed?
Dr. Negi: It's both At a biological level, we do have this compassion, uh, what we can say the seeds of compassion. It can be biased, but it can be very unconditional, like the mother feels for her baby or a good friend towards another friend.
There's this pouring of warm heart feeling, warm-heartedness, you know, that way... That makes you, you know, uncomfortable to see someone struggling in life and want to do something about, respond to. That's what the compassion is, you know. You know, we, we, uh, s- understand compassion as the warm-hearted concern unfolding from understanding or seeing the suffering of others and feel motivated to eli- alleviate that.
Now, although there is a innate biological level compassion that we all have, but that can be quite biased. It comes [00:32:00] easily to those who are like us, whether it's just simply color of our skin or the, you know, religion we share or the, uh, ethnicity we share, or even, you know, like what sports that we like.
It, it actually comes down to, you know, for the children at the five months, nine-month-old babies, if you, um, give them a preference to, you know, choice to which cartoon they will prefer, the one who is helping others or one who is hurting or hindering others, um, babies overwhelmingly, you know, like close to 80 some perc- 80 some percent of the babies you will see they will choose the one that is kinder, that is helpful for others.
So with... From there, the scientists infer that, uh, we have this innate capacity for preference for kindness. And the little, you know, babies you can see by age, like year, year and half or [00:33:00] so, you, you can see how if they see somebody struggling just to, you know, hands full of books and then trying to open a, uh, shelf to put those, and then the, the researcher is, you know, acting like he's really struggling and drops something, th- you can see the child comes, you know, watching, opens the door, uh, something that may have dropped that, pick up and give it to them.
It- those kind acts are just very natural for little children. But again, it is quite narrow. It comes cl- easy to those who are close to them already, the family members and the those who are nice to them or who look like them. But it's harder to have that warm feeling for th- those who see them as other, you know, different from them.
And that's why that today What we do need is to expand that kindness and compassion. You know, so very much like the Dr. King, you know, this [00:34:00] fighting for the civil rights. He did not met the others as enemy, like the evil like that, but rather embraced their humanity, saw them as human beings, and, uh, with the, with the s- you know, similar vulnerabilities and aspirations.
And the, that kind of recognition of common humanity is what elevated him and his movement to really, without resorting to violence and like that, to achieve the goals for the society, for the huge number of people and so, and the society itself.
Jeannine Etter: How would someone practice compassion when the other person is not also compassionate?
Dr. Negi: That's a great question, and it's not easy. I think that we should not take it as, you know, if we are not able to feel compassion for someone whose behavior is really harmful for others or yourself or your loved ones, you know, there, there's certain social injustices that [00:35:00] we can see. If we feel stirred by it, that's, that's natural in, in some ways.
But, uh, the question here is that what do we do with that anger? What do we do with, you know, what upsets us to seeing injustice done to you or to others, to humanity? And I think that that's where all spiritual traditions, yes, Christianity certainly has, uh, deep, deep wisdom in how to separate the actor from the action.
That as Jesus himself being crucified, uh, asks for the Father to forgive the person who is, you know, executing him for they not, not know what they are doing. You know, that, that is to say that, uh, any living being, if we can't find a way to understand where they're coming from, what has shaped the kind of the attitudes, the [00:36:00] ideologies, uh, emotions that are, uh, leading them to such harmful behavior, actions, and like that, I think that's where, uh, we can blame, we can oppose the injustice, the behavior without demonizing the person himself or herself.
Um, that's, that's what we find in all tradition, and that's easier said than done, of course. But, uh, you know, as we were talking earlier, if the compassion is a skill that can be learned and expanded, how we can find a way to expand our compassion. We, of course, in the face of such injustice, we need to find a way to forgive first.
And for forgiving, you know, entails, uh, seeing the humanity in the other person. In the kind of effort to peace, uh, I think, uh, one of the [00:37:00] things that His Holiness the Dalai Lama has written extensively and discussed with the scientists and, uh, looked into the various, uh, studies in social sciences, you know, with the neuroscientists and others to see that what are some of the things that lead to melting of this us versus other.
And that is what he calls common humanity and a shared human condition. Bishop Desmond Tutu has beautiful phrase. Now, he, he has been, like, one of the closest friends of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. They are, they are both Nobel laureates, peace laureates. Incredible friendship they had between them. And he talks about that when a mother loses a child, that pain is pain.
It doesn't know whether somebody's mother is a Christian or the Buddhist or is Muslim or atheist. Yeah, pain is pain. And I think that when we [00:38:00] begin to attune to our shared human condition, seeing the humanity in them, then we can oppose their behavior, try to find a way to correct it as Dr. King beautifully, uh, demonstrated, uh, Nelson Mandela did beautifully in South Africa, Desmond Tutu himself also.
I think that seeing humanity in others is the key.
Jeannine Etter: How do we practice compassion without losing healthy boundaries or enabling harmful behavior?
Dr. Negi: Yeah, that's a great question. It, it's very true, you know, that there's a certain sense of fear that people sometimes have, and that is that if I am kind and compassionate to someone who is abusive, who is, you know, harmful, that would mean that you are just being submissive, and then that they will carry on that injustice, uh, whether it's in a personal relationship or the, [00:39:00] you know, in a larger context.
I think that, uh, you know, it comes from a certain misunderstanding about compassion and kindness. Compassion is not a sign of weakness. It's not about just simply being doormat or simply being passive or condoning someone's misbehavior. But compassion is a sign of courage. It comes from that place where you have that inner kind of strength to see someone struggle, and instead of recoiling, you know, turning away from that, you know, it pulls you towards them.
It directs your attention to want to do something to help them. So in that sense, compassion, first of all, I think that it, uh, need to be understood as it has to do with that inner strength of seeing someone suffering and, you know, from that [00:40:00] strength that leads to an urge, a desire to do something about.
Now, it is true that, you know, if compassion is simply understood just being nice, not doing anything, and just letting them, you know, carry on their injustices or the misbehavior, you know, that, that, that will be the, uh, the problematic. So awareness is the key. Again, I come back to this. Compassion, understanding that someone is, at a given moment, capable of hurting you, capable of hurting others.
There's every reason that you set boundary, create that buffer, the space, that way you don't become the target of someone's injustice. There's a beautiful example in, you know, Buddhist teachings. It, it says that when, when you know the fire has the capacity to burn you- you keep a certain distance from the [00:41:00] fire, you know, without hating the fire.
You know that fire has the nature of kind of burning. So same thing when someone, not because it's their nature that down to their core they are evil, they, they will hurt, but rather in a given circumstance, if someone coming from certain suspicions, certain misguided ideologies, beliefs, you know, deep fear and greed and so forth, if they're coming from the, that place, they are capable of hurting others.
And therefore, you have every reason to keep distance, to, you know, keep them away and to oppose that. Uh, it's not incompatible
Jeannine Etter: So part of your teachings, you teach students to meditate, and some people call this inner work. Meditation, prayer, fasting, mindfulness. There are [00:42:00] many practices. But when it comes to inner work of the individual, do you think that when an individual changes, that also changes society at large?
How does inner work change society at large?
Dr. Negi: Yeah, that's a, that's a, a really important question. You know, do we transform our society by changing the external circumstances or focusing on individual transformation? And I think that we need both. You know, as we know that our genes, whether this debate about nature versus nurture, what, what we are is, is it just strictly shaped by our genes or our environment?
You know, that our upbringing and environment like that. Today, it's a very clear understanding [00:43:00] among the s- the researchers, scientists, that it is both. You know, both we do have these innate dispositions, but also the environment around us really influences that what, what we become, how, how we grow, you know, in our emotions, in our values, thinking.
So in that way, uh, it's both. But, uh, you know, in the more recent years as this has been kinda tilting towards more the nurture, you know, that the environment. It's the... It's not just genes, but the environment, the, in which that we are. And so, yeah, from that perspective, I think that it's really important to create the external environment that is kinder, compassionate, like whether it's a family or it's a school or an organization or society.
But I think, you know, the, for that kind of change, it's not just going to happen by itself. Individuals need to [00:44:00] change also to bring that about, you know. So Mahatma Gandhi, you know, uh, has said that, you know, "Be the change that, the change that you want to see." And I think it's a, you know, same thing. It's if we do not change ourselves, it will be very hard to see us contributing to that around us.
If I'm constantly coming from a suspicions and the hate, you know, that's what I'm going to put out around me, you know, in my behavior. Just even just subtle responses, how I look at somebody or the, what the tone of my voice might be. What are my expression or body language is with the talking. You know, the small decision that, uh, I'm capable of.
If they are shaped by my selfishness, my, you know, hate- Or, you know, jealousy and like that, f- you know, fear-based. That's how that will happen. So it becomes very important for us to not [00:45:00] lose the sight of the how important it is that we find a way to enhance our inner skills, inner abilities that help us not only regulate our emotions, but make the right choices.
You know, not just calculated way, you know, "I'm, I'm cool mind," and then... But rather creating those dispositions within, so that in the real moment you will respond from that place of awareness of common humanity or this place of balance and the, you know, the calm, peace. Uh, so that's why I think that, uh, inner work is important.
When we talk about meditation- It's not a religious practice per se. I mean, it can certainly be combined with the religious elements, uh, but the meditation itself is very psychological kind of exercise. Meditation, I simply said that it's a, a process of training. Training [00:46:00] to enhance inner skills, healthy inner skills.
You know, the way train to get better in playing tennis or piano or the sports and, or, you know, language, speech, speech, you know, like that. Same way we can train to enhance our ability to be more aware, to have a greater awareness of our impulses and like that, and be able to notice that without judging.
You know, that, that we can train ourselves to see others are like us. We can train ourselves to, you know, be more aware of how interdependent we are. You know, again, you know, I, I quote, you know, Dr. King, one of his, uh, really great sort of insights, you know, that has led to this in a remarkable way of pursuing a non-violent way of resolving the issues, is recognition that we are so [00:47:00] interdependent.
You know, the world is inextricably connected. And, uh, he talks about the w- before we finish eating breakfast, we have dependent on half the world. You know, that, you know, you think about that, you know, it's not directly, but you get up in the morning, you have clean water in your, in the bathroom to, to brush.
You have toothbrush, you have toothpaste, you, you have running water, you have toilet there. You woke up in the bed. You're in a house that was built. You know, you have in the refrigerator that, uh, things to make breakfast. You have a stove, the gas, the electricity. You know, the bread you have, the coffee you make, how many people...
And the toaster and all. When, when you think about that, before you finish your breakfast, how many people that we have depended on, how many people have contributed. And that inextricable kind of nature or connected reality is what somehow he says that without, [00:48:00] if we don't embrace that, there's no hope for peace.
Jeannine Etter: Hmm. That makes me think about interconnectedness as a mindset, a mindset shift. You were talking about how society shapes us. I have not seen compassion embraced as a cultural value, especially in the West. The values of Western society do not seem to be at large about love, compassion, forgiveness in general.
So since compassion feels undervalued in modern society, especially driven by competition, productivity, and status, how does someone sustain compassion in an environment that may not value or reward it?
Dr. Negi: Yeah, that is the real challenge, isn't it? As a human society, I wouldn't say only West, uh, you know, more I think to do with the modernity, but, [00:49:00] uh, otherwise, human societies throughout the world were sustained by compassion.
You know, if you think about, you know, a family, how would the children grow if in the family there's no love, no compassion? That will really make it hard for a baby to survive. And if their parents or the adult caregiver, if they did not notice their needs and responded to, you know, when they were ill, feeling ill, they were feeling scared, when they were feeling hungry.
The... So the compassion has been the factor that actually has made us survive and flourish, uh, you know, if you look at in the societies. And that this is what, in the scientific world, in more recent decades, uh, this awareness has been growing. Th- this idea that competition is [00:50:00] what, you know, makes us succeed, to survive.
You know, the stronger person will have their resources and pass their genes, and then that, you know, that's how the evolution works. So survival of the fittest in that kind of twisted sense. But the more recent understanding from the research and observations by the, the evolutionary biologists, the neuroscientists, and others, has been that actually, you know, we managed to come this far primarily because of cooperation.
Cooperation is what, you know, made it possible for us as a group to really survive. Because we cooperate, there's a reciprocity. There's... It builds trust. And, uh, no one person is going to be able to survive by himself or herself. You know, we depend, need others. And that living together, [00:51:00] what kind of keeps us together is the compassion, you know, the, the tender feeling towards each other.
That, that's... That's heart of the compassion is feeling tender, warm-hearted towards each other. This is what, you know, like the Darwin, the father of evolutionary biology, he himself recognized that the, one of the strongest social instinct, you know, instinct that keeps us together, is sympathy. For compassion at the time, sympathy.
You know, that tenderness towards each other. He noticed that in the species where sympathy among members were in abundance, those species thrived. Where it was missing, those perished So I think the, the compassion as the essential for our flourishing, uh, this understanding is coming back. At some point with the, the focus [00:52:00] on external development, I think the, you know, our societies have to some extent neglected this inner part, inner resources, inner cultivation, but it is coming back, and I think the...
That's why you see it today that, uh, you know, even whether it's a leadership or in the businesses, you know, they are seeing that for more sustainable, uh, progress will, uh, depend what kind of focusing on the human capital, you know, like the, the human element, the human, human connection. Because if you build the better trust with you as a leader and, uh, your employee, you as a doctor and your, you know, patient or the, the colleagues, that's where you will function better.
So even from the kind of... For the bottom line, it- it's, uh, being compassionate is, uh, better. As His Holiness Dalai Lama has said that, you know, the love and [00:53:00] compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive, and that's... The science is showing that as well, and, uh, what, uh, spiritual traditions all across have recognized and, you know, inspired their, uh, followers.
I think that, uh, today we are seeing that, you know, scientific research is also complementing that understanding that, you know, the, the providing support for that understanding. It's, it's a really, uh, hopeful... You know, I, I will say this, that when we were talking about whether we focus on external change or internal, in reality, you know, we as individuals, we don't have control, total control over circumstances, external factors.
We can go a long way, but we don't have the total control. What we can focus, if we do [00:54:00] focus along with making as best change externally that's conducive for our growth and wellbeing, but if we can focus on how we can respond to those situations when the things go wrong in life, uh, you know, s- uh, experience loss or the failure or the...
Like that, what is our mindset? You know, that how do we view that? What, what is our perspective? And i- if we may not have the ability to change or control circumstances altogether, but we can certainly work on getting better in how we respond.
Jeannine Etter: When I saw the monks walk for peace, I noticed that there was a real hunger for this in the crowds that showed up, a real hunger for, for compassion and for peace.
No matter what's happening in the world, everyday people seem to want peace and, and really want to find how to get there [00:55:00]
Dr. Negi: Absolutely, yeah. It was incredible to see how people were just lining up to see them walk by. You know, like, it, it's just exactly as you said. It demonstrate that how we are just so deeply yearning for peace, you know, that we see our society, we are seeing this conflict, the divide just now.
I mean, it is much sim- you know, really amplified today with the, you know, the, in the society, you know. But it has been there, and then that need for peace has been, uh, certainly there. But I think as they said that, you know, we appreciate the light when it is the darkest. The, the light that, you know, shines most brightly in the, when it's darkest of the night.
And I think that, you know, anyone [00:56:00] demonstrating, conveying, you know, that this message, hope for peace and kindness, you know, it shines most brightly, you know, when we have most need for that. And I think that, uh, society today, we are seeing our social fabric is really frayed. We social beings, you know, we find comfort in being together.
You know, that's, that's the nature of the social nature. And then when that connection is kind of missing, we feel, you know, we feel more and more isolated, more and more lonely, and more and more unsafe, you know. And that shows up in our chemicals in our body, in the, you know, that how our nervous system is activated, and it, it affects our body, it affects our emotional experience, it affects our productivity, functioning.
So I think [00:57:00] in this, you know, dark moments, we do need to focus on spreading and highlighting the very values that have kept us together so far, you know, that our ancestors and us. I think that we need more than ever, you know, that message, you know, that training, that way to, the education that, uh, focuses on people, the humans, you know, the, the connection.
I think that's, that's what the compassion is.
HOST: That was Geshe Lobsang Tenzin Negi, a professor at Emory University and author of Engaged Compassion. Earlier in the program, correspondent Jeannine Etter spoke with Sheikh Mustafa Amadou Baaba, Rabbi Sheila Weinberg, Pastor R.C. Blakes Jr., and Venerable Bhante Maha Dam Phommasan [00:58:00] To learn about the Walk for Peace and the guests featured in this program, visit our website at peacetalksradio.com.
HOST: You'll also find additional programs exploring the many ways people build peace in their lives, communities, and the wider world. Support comes from listeners like you and the McCune Foundation. Nola Daves Moses is our executive director. Ali Adelman composed and performs our theme music. For Jeannine Etter and co-founders Paul Ingles and Suzanne Kryder, I'm Jessica Ticktin
Thanks so much for listening to and for supporting Peace Talks Radio.
